Warcraft patch 1.24

[Steelb_l_ade]

As you may, or may not know patch 1.24 breaks the current version of ROTG, meaning it will no longer load.
Now, im not certain if anyone actually still wants to play it but i'm quite happy to attempt to fix it and change a few things being as everyone has no choice but to redownload it anyway.

Is this worth it?
What should be changed?

I see from recent hosting attempts folks on bnet are simply usless at creeping still despite the fact in most cases they only need attack-move so perhaps a quickstart option that rolls them in at higher levels might be better,

Also the bnet map limit for size is now 8meg.
This means I can once again add things.

Some new heroes maybe?

Also means now i dont have to compress it so heavily consqently it'd fix those fractured tooltips.

anyway, feedback is welcome.

[Steelb_l_ade]

P.s maybe could do an option to remove item constrants so people can feck about on it like they seem to want to do.

[IcyAngel]

I don't know what to say, really.
I can only see very few games hosted on Battle.Net, and even less experienced players. You probably know as well as me how annoyingly boring it is to play against a team of 4 newer players when you have experience, you can just crush them one by one for the whole game, and even take the 4 of them alone at certain point, or do bad on purpose, trying to teach them, and not enjoying your games.

I would be ready anytimes to start hosting alot, and introduce my friends to the game, which they will probably love themselves and start to host it alot too, but only if I know I am not alone on that. We need a base of players, just as we had before, and that base will be very hard/impossible to have back. So the problem lies in everybody.
Are we all ready to contribute and favorise ( is that even a word ? ) this map to promote it into an ''higher level'', or should we simply admit it was a great map, and the next one can only be better ?

(How are you by the way ? It has been a long time.)

[GunnarStyle]

As you may, or may not know patch 1.24 breaks the current version of ROTG, meaning it will no longer load.
Now, im not certain if anyone actually still wants to play it but i'm quite happy to attempt to fix it and change a few things being as everyone has no choice but to redownload it anyway.

Is this worth it?
What should be changed?

I see from recent hosting attempts folks on bnet are simply usless at creeping still despite the fact in most cases they only need attack-move so perhaps a quickstart option that rolls them in at higher levels might be better,

Also the bnet map limit for size is now 8meg.
This means I can once again add things.

Some new heroes maybe?

Also means now i dont have to compress it so heavily consqently it'd fix those fractured tooltips.

anyway, feedback is welcome.

I'd say instead of focusing on new heroes (althou always a good idea) maybe experiment with the idea of making the first 3rd of the play easier - lowering the HP on mobs... make some items cheaper etc... don't powerlevel people as they'll never learn it correct... Keep them at the point it's ment to be, and then slowly make it harder if people complains about it being too easy... And the fact that creeping, as you mention, is the hardest for beginners, especially with heroes who are lousy at creeping, that ought to be the part being changed first imo. - not all the creatures in every group has to be modified but maybe just 1 (the hardest/toughest one) could be nerfed a bit, but by that make it a lot easier for beginners...

-Wont that just make the good players get even further away in mid game, when they're able to step through early game faster.

Yes, but the idea is to have 2 equally skilled teams.. in experience with the game...

-Is it worth it?

That is completely up to you, mate.. we're doing nothing here except playing the map and trying to pass it on to whoever joins...
since there hasn't really been any big changes in level of activity for the last half year, I don't reckon it'll change THAT much, just because 2-5 people start hosting an easier version... it has to start somewhere, yea, but I will not lie and set up false hopes, when I believe otherwise as I wrote earlier somewhere in a tread in here...

Should you, however, decide to give this map another serious go, I'll do my best to get it (back) on it's feet.. however my time is more limited than in the past... I still believe, that the map in general is the best made, thou it being hard to getting better at compared to other much crappier maps with more simple gameplay.

[Steelb_l_ade]

Hey fellas!
I have decided to create a working version. Too much work has gone into it to leave it in a broken state because of a new patch.

As far as I can see mostly it dosnt get anywhere because people simply cannot get "going" so im taking a few steps to make that easier.

Firstly, all heroes will now spawn with a healing potion, Unlike the mercs players should recognise what that item is and from watching new pple play its usually the first thing they buy.

Secondly, ive encoded options to allow all players to begin at level 6 should they want too (im thinking might be good for new players all playing) Also a lot of peopel get very discouraged seeing a player hit level 6 and get a bonus, obviously in this mode that dosnt apply.

I designed a new creeping system for ROTG FFA so I might replace this ones system with that whitch is considerably easier. (for one its impossible to get more than 1 "super" creep in a camp)

I about half wrote ROTG FFA so i was able to port some of the better code from that into this including improving the frontend.

As newbies seem to repick like rabbits ive removed the gold cost and instead am letting the host give each player a set amount of repicks, that should prevent them spanking all thier gold and quitting.

Cause the newbies cant seem to get thier heads round the ton of frontend options ive simply written in a "Easy launch" button they can hit whitch sets everythign up automatically for a fairly easy Deathmatch game.

Im considering nerfing some of the early creeps. Although with the current extras that migth be overkill.

I am doing a new hero =)
As a designer thats the fun bit, so im having a bit of it making one. With the file size limits expanded I can add some stuff I always wanted too but couldnt because of the filesize.

Any other suggestions for changes are welcome.
My primary focus is on making it easier and simplier so the majority of people on battlenet can actually play it.

Its biggest issue apart from the download has always been they simply dont stick it out long enough to see thier heroes get powerful.

[Steelb_l_ade]

P.s there wont be a working Bnet version until I can resolve a few of the problems in the code, if you are experinced in re-wrintg parts of JASS into a hash table check the post below:

http://www.hiveworkshop.com/forums/triggers-and-scripts-269/broken-magic-in-1-24-a-139208/#post1255140

[Steelb_l_ade]

New Frontend:

[GunnarStyle]

Good idea with the heal pot and costless repicks (thou limited by choice)

And yea, that should do it instead of nerfing the single unit in a camp..

I, as always, know nothing about the codes but I see some Hive guys have begun to comment on the 1.24 changes in that JASS thingy..

Should you ever wanna test in on Northred give me a call.. msn, skype, whatever suitable... I still speak to old volt guys reguarly, so they might be able to help testing etc... if not, then I'll force some of my Danish mates to try it out ;)

[pants_down]

I registered just to post this!

Yes, please update the map to work with the new patch!

I played this map like a year? ago, and loved it. I am a regular DOTA player, but this map is so well made, I cannot understand why it is not more popular...

Anyway, I was thinking of this map when the new patch came through breaking everything, and really hoped that it would get fixed for new patch...

Anyway, you got my vote to fix it please! And anything you can do to make it more palatable for the masses would be a bonus!

My biggest suggestion is that if ANYONE who is a regular here knows how to set up a bot (I don't) on bnet to host games and allow download of the full map all day and night 24/7, then I HIGHLY suggest that you do that to gain more popularity!

Thanks!

[Steelb_l_ade]

Wow, maybe someone does play it. lol
The automatic hosting program is known as "listchecker" I believe. I think I have a copy of it somewhere.

[chenlimin]

the new patch doesn't really affect me since I didn't update (my server didn't). but I really look forward to the new version of rotg. mind if you let out some cues on the new hero?

Also I think more people would host this map if it's update more, cos update makes people notice this map more and shows this map isn't dead.

[Steelb_l_ade]

Well, just because somehting isnt updated anymroe surely dosnt mean its dead, I mean eventually it will get to a point when its simply finished.

[Steelb_l_ade]

The new hero (there may be up to 4 new ones depending) Is an undead class specialising between stealth and magic. It uses a new special weapon mechanic.

[Steelb_l_ade]

Okay, I have a version now that works, but im going to continue making some changes, as for now it will have the same problems as before, it dosnt seem to matter how many starting items you give players they wont use them to get started.

They'd rather save them and quit(?) because theyve died.

Therefore im going to be completly scrapping the entire creeping system, camps, mobs and so on and starting over from scratch.

I think a greater number of far easier creeps might work out better as these people are just never going to learn to creep properly!

[chenlimin]

I suggest having creeps close to starting point nerf to a point where you don't need items for them, but still keeping some stronger creeps for those skilled enough. I like this system.
And what plans do you have for the new system, something close to the one used now or something 100% new? Could just make it like all player will share 10%(or something) of their exp so that the level gap will not get too big and becomes a 1-pro show.

and what's the "new special weapon mechanic" a weapon system like those in rpg maps? (if yes, will chainsaw be a weapon?) or something simple?

[Steelb_l_ade]

The new hero enjoys a weapon that is unquily his which he spawns with and can enhance with an ability. It is however the only weapon he can ever have, player sin testing love it though so could be good.

The creeping system will look and feel simlier to the old one, but in fact is a complete re-write.

There will now be 24(!) creep camps. All creeps have been significantly nerfed, some have been retired, some new ones made.

Generally its MUCH easier and now possible to creep to levels 6-8 without using a single item.

The late game creeps will generally be easier than before, shifting the game's emphesis to PVP rather than PVE like was orginally intended.

[chenlimin]

will titan and altar be nerf too (like in drops and power of titan)? will the respawn time shorten cos it's easy (or extremely easy for old-timers) to kill creeps now.
I am going to miss the old times when one can be 10 level ahead of newbie XD
And will creeping hero be burf??
*preparing to make and update guides*

[Steelb_l_ade]

The new version is designed to make it accessable to all players, so its being made a lot easier generally, the ritual and titans will remain the same as hosts can tailor their difficulty by changing the game mode.

There is no point having a map only a select few are any good at as those people will ahve no opposition. Besides, in a private game of more expirenced players the focus is on fighting each other rather than the creeps anyway, so it shouldnt make much difference.

Hero buffing & nerfing is dependant on the results from observing play, balance is always an ongoing factor.

At this time no heroes are being directly buffed or nerfed until I see a case for why they should be.

[pants_down]

Wow, maybe someone does play it. lol
The automatic hosting program is known as "listchecker" I believe. I think I have a copy of it somewhere.

The automatic hosting program is called ghost++ or seomthing like that.

You will see auto hosted games of dota and tank wars, as well as other games in bnet right now.

Its not listchecker, thats just a normal hosting tool, but requires a user...

Seriously, look into one of these auto-hosting tools, and your map WILL get played...

[Steelb_l_ade]

Well i'l create a version im happy with first and worry about it later, some really neat stuff is in the pipeline.
;)

[Avarion]

I registered just to post =p

Very well made map; very elaborate skills, balancing and strategic elements. As unfortunate as it is, DOTA has become a category killer for the AoS genre. Heck, it even stopped people from playing ladder!

It's ultimately about getting sufficient publicity, which is very difficult. Please don't give up.

[Steelb_l_ade]

Tests are still underway on the new version im working on, Live tests are now being done on the new systems the new version will add, (players are going to have a much greater control on the game than before)
It's going well and I think when its all put together it might actually get somewhere as really arnt seeing many leaves anymore.

I still have a few more issues to iron out yet though,

[GunnarStyle]

I agree, the first couple of games I've seen and played shows huge improvements in game play, length of game, closeness of games and people's will to rejoin/regame.

Just wait folks :)

[Steelb_l_ade]

The new version is getting to the point where its being a massive revamp. Currently im on my 424th revision of going from 1.41 to 1.50.

Players are now going to have greatly expanded options in how to effect the game.

Hopefuly you will be able to use, on the fly, in game features such as:

Configuring your game camera to play the game zoomed out etc.

Players will be able to change the wining conditions while playing, such as altering the score limit or even changing it from deathmatch to boss mode and vice versa.

Players are also able to remap the difficulty in game. Allowing players to reconfigure game settings to any combination they want and even reverse that.

I dread to mention. But players may finally be able to swap teams. (its the designing of this massive function thats taking so long)

All of these features will now be accessed by player control menus instead of text commands.

:cool:

[IcyAngel]

Woah, you really profit of that updated space limit eh ? ^^
If you need testers just ask me by the way, you're doing an incredible job and I can't wait to play it ^^

[GunnarStyle]

In addition to all these update posts I'd just like to mention that I got a clan running on Northrend in which all ROTG'ers are welcome to join and use to get some good ROTG up running.

Atm. the clan consists of me and real life friends, but all are nice/non-trashtalking people and the clan is open to all regardless of 'skills' as long as people just behave..

Clan is called Jizz'n'Tizz (mainly just an inside joke name.. but non-important really)

Channel: Clan Jizz

To find the channel just go into any channel and type: /J clan jizz

If there is any members online in the channel you'll be able to enter, else it's "restricted", but not because we've denied you access... it's just a Blizzard rule, that if no clan members are online in channel you can't enter..

To join just whisper me on the acc: "Kiilisch" or "GunnarStyle" (I'll most likely be online with Kiilisch acc)

Or one of these: Bjarnetizz (Shaman) & Magicbox (Chieftain) both are good mates of mine, and I've informed them that our clan could be used for ROTG as well...

[Steelb_l_ade]

The team swap is giving me nightmare headaches as theres ludicrous amounts of combos players can fire it under and the map needs to be reprogrammed to make it function properly,

It seems that the follwoing limitations will apply:

You can only swap teams once. Then you are fixed.
You cannot swap with a player that has already swapped, or that has left and had a ref take over from them.

You must have a hero to initate the swap (though you target player dosnt have to i.e could still be a wisp)

The target player can however be a leaver if you want.

[chenlimin]

btw by swapping do you mean your whole hero item gold etc swap too? or just swapping the players e.g you swap with red and you keep your own hero or red's?

[Steelb_l_ade]

There are two possible ways to "swap".

You can be a referee (player 11 or 12) and "takeover" from a leaving player.

When that happens you "become" that player gaining thier hero, or wisp and all thier gold/items & lumber. You also inherit thier kills and deaths.

Or, in the new system you may swap with a live player, or even a leaver on the enemy team. (they must agree to it however)

When this happens you will join the enemy team and leave your own. You will keep your hero, items in your stash & hero, your kills and deaths & your resources.

The team you have left will have the other player join it, bringing all of thier stuff and sharing control with the new team if they are a leaver.

Team swapping is not reversable, and once a ref has joined he may not swap afterwards.

Team swapping in duel mode is not possible.

Although it seems simple enough the new menu system/team swapping is by far the most complex system in the map totalling literally thousands of lines of code.

You cannot swap during duels, waiting for duels, during difficulty, winning remaps, during boss duels, during cinematics, without heroes, when other swap requests are active.

But if its rejected the game will tell you why, and what to do.

You should note that after a swap the team's score will be recalculated using the TS formuae (team levels+kills-deaths) of all players in it. So it will radically change your team's score and it is possible that a very high level player joining a winning team replacing a low level hero will hit the score limit instantly. Theres no way around this but thats just people being retarded.
The system is intended to balance out the game when one team is dominating, not to abuse it so one team dominates further.

If rampant abuse becomes a problem i'll just take it back out.