Jungle Troll balancing

[Warpus]

As of today i have come with reason that troll needs to be upgraded. He could be a great hero but right now i dont think he could take out anything but creeps. and my maybe pull off a kill if he gets lucky. People will argue that hes fine i disagree heres why

1. His traps have long cds his explosive has a 120 second cd and it only last for like 150 seconds with ulti? meaning he can only lay one trap possibly two.

2. His spiked trap has a faster cd bout has a shorter duration. Once again maybe 2 traps at most. and they only do 200 dmg with 1 second stun? Lets look at Chaos knights 195 dmg with a .02 second stun and has 16 cd.
Jungle trolls spiked trap: 200 dmg 1 second stun Cd 100. Do you see anything? i do chaos knight can pull off 3 of his stuns in the amount of time jungles spike does 1. And it cant hit titans while chaos knights can?

3. People may say oh they do loads of dmg if ur caught in it ur ****ed. Not true. U can send mercs screamers or any creep or just get truesight. and what happens to those traps worthless?

4: my Idea is simple. Reduce cd to liek 30 seconds on both traps and put limits to how many u can have like maybe 5 each or 7? People might say wow just stack up them in one spot and Its game over? No not true at all True sight will let usee it. if u supect theres a trap send in creeps first? or illusions or something Its not that hard to counter as people think.

that is all thanks fo listening

[Hunter of Shadows]

I think reduced to 30 is a bit much

50 seems better, as those traps are kinda nasty

You gotta remember, you keep comparing it just to the chaos knight, well the chaos knight reduces damage like crazy, so of course those traps wont hurt him much

While against someone else in the right places in a team situation would be mean

[Warpus]

50 is close to a minute. to long. Troll HAS casting time for his traps so there not instant so 30 seconds seems good. i mean omost people have spells that like 15 second cd. and traps take 2 seconds to set and 4 to go off leaving a huge gap in tight situations.

Err i just used Chaos knight as an example. And i was comparing his stun to trolls. Its Traps Are Strong when hit but they are easily countered. Everyone's spells WILL hit the enmy Troll's had less of a chance to hit. So i feel 30 seconds seems reasonable. Its better then waiting 2 mins to do things. I mean look at Argonax when fighting him u can only hurt him for like 500 dmg every 2 mins? and the rest your own your own? Not Even that but. I dont see why Spike traps cant hit titans. its only a 1 second stun and 200 dmg. I am not asking to make troll uber. I am just trying to find ways to balance him ya know?

[IcyAngel]

30 sec would be freaking imbalanced.
These do LOADS of dmg, more then every normal spell, so it's normal that they have a kinda long cooldown.
Every spell can be countered, but if you buy Invis detect item on every heroe to be sure there isnt some stacked traps or whatever, they will just leak cause some heroe really need specific item, so you'll finally just end up killed by his allies.

[Steelb_l_ade]

In my first note about this thread, the Trolls spells are not less likely to hit because the enemy can get truesight, any targetted spel in the game (which a trap isnt) can be blocked by "Spellshatter armour" whereas if a unit gets hit by a trap while wearing SS armoru teh trap will still hti the others nearby meaning that in some circustances the trolls magic is actually more likely to be useful than say, a chaos knight's "Hammerblow" (which can never hit a target whos got spellshatter)

[Hunter of Shadows]

In my first note about this thread, the Trolls spells are not less likely to hit because the enemy can get truesight, any targetted spel in the game (which a trap isnt) can be blocked by "Spellshatter armour" whereas if a unit gets hit by a trap while wearing SS armoru teh trap will still hti the others nearby meaning that in some circustances the trolls magic is actually more likely to be useful than say, a chaos knight's "Hammerblow" (which can never hit a target whos got spellshatter)

But thats beside the point, on such a large map it would be hard to gurantee ANYONE will EVER run into a trap you place, unless you place it in spots they're guranteed to go, but saying to stack them is somewhat of a moot point, as the cd is long enough that doesn't really work.

Perhaps at least make them last longer so you have a higher chance of someone eventually walking on them?

It might just be that warpus stunk or that theres a real problem with this

I might be arguing a point thats really dumb

[DeathClown]

In my opinion, traps are to be made in realtime scenarios, when enemy heroes are chasing you, i.e. outside the portals are an example... Techies is more about preparing, this hero is more about just doing it at the right time, which makes him difficult to play bc. of big map.

I definately understand your thoughts, I just don't know a rational way to solve it ^^

[Warpus]

In my opinion, traps are to be made in realtime scenarios, when enemy heroes are chasing you, i.e. outside the portals are an example... Techies is more about preparing, this hero is more about just doing it at the right time, which makes him difficult to play bc. of big map.

I definately understand your thoughts, I just don't know a rational way to solve it ^^

Traps take 2 seconds to set and 2 seconds to go off. so u spend a totaly of 4 seconds for get off. if your running 4 seconds might be to long.

Lets put this way. Trolls only dmg comes from traps. As Steelblade said it is very very easy to counter. And since trolls only spell is traps that take 2 mins to cooldown. what good is he?

30 second cd isnt that big. so lets say i have am ax of 5 of those traps s laided out. like Shadow said the map is really big. so unless i put it in keypoints it wont have much use. and even if you would bunch them up if u have trueisght or whatever, it really makes no difference.

[C0CKMAN]

I played the Troll in my first game, and was very surprised of how effective he was - Think about it, he almost whipes out an entire creep camp per mine - If he could do that every 30th second how fast would he gather gold to boost his standard attack / buy nuke items (which I've learned the hard way can be very efffective, ty SBlade.. xD) compared to other 'creeping' heroes?

You compare the Troll's stun to a another hero, which has one stun spell only - the troll has two, spikes and net. Comparing a support hero to a frontline tank will always cause some "imbalanced" elements because of the different strenghts/weaknesses :)

Furthermore the Troll's ulti improves his spike trap (reduces cd)

[Steelb_l_ade]

C0ckman has actually hit right on the reason why the cooldowns are so high, and this why the number of traps allowed wont matter and why the cooldown cannot be lowered. also as a footnote "Spiketrap" can actually hit up to 6 units at once if used right.