Current Hero Re-balancing Version 1.4

[Steelb_l_ade]

Okay these are my inital notes form the games ive seen so far:
Note: This article relates purely to hero balance, not to bugs or to item balancing.

Comments are welcome.

Arcane Crusader-Slightly too weak, invigorate commonly regarded as "usesless" (although ive found some great uses for it)
Possibly increase this heroes base dmg?

Druid-Slightly too weak again, Possibly considering improving vinewall slightly as it was in prior versions.

Sea Drake-Currently junking noobs 10 to the dozen, considering nerfing Divebombs dmg slightly, or increasing Waves' cd.

Disrupter-Whooping ass. Considering increasing the cooldown of magic resistance.

Chaos knight-A badass hero, what to change if anything though?

Dragonkin-Too powerful due to freezing breaths slow/ice shield-consider reducing freeze effect/cd, consider nerfing ice shield.

Diabloist-Critisized as being too weak, though I think hes fine, comments?

Witch Hunter-Too powerful, though usually mis-used, comments?

Shadowmancer-too powerful, consider nerfing bone armour.

Hell Knight-Too weak? Consider making Underworld Strike hit titans?

Viper Spider-Too powerful? Consider nerfing venom?

[Hunter of Shadows]

Diabloist-Critisized as being too weak, though I think hes fine, comments?

Struggles against others by himself I've found, should buff him slightly so he isnt entirely dependant on others

Witch Hunter-Too powerful, though usually mis-used, comments?


Teh nerfage!
Shadowmancer-too powerful, consider nerfing bone armour

Not to powerful, focus magic is largely situational dependant, that means you must use at right time otherwise he's useless


Hell Knight-Too weak? Consider making Underworld Strike hit titans

Not so much weak as the fire walk spell isnt too helpful to be honest

Viper Spider-Too powerful? Consider nerfing venom?

Nah, his paralysis bite just needs like...10% less slow on it
You have told me the passive is overlooked, but trust me, 20% slow isnt very good, it can help, but ppl will get away sooner or later unless you have bite and enough damage to overpower before they escape.

Why?

With every succesive strike they get slowed, but they do get a bit further away, and spider has to go further and further to hit them, so sooner or later without more slowage, or they're already weakened, your faster, ect.

They're going to get away

No imo the bite is the real gg

[DeathClown]

Shadowmancer - I actually think this hero is fine as he is... He got great damage\chasing capabilities, because of the 2000 range on his Spasm. Armor though, could have it's Cooldown increased by like 2-4 seconds, and make it range 2-3-4-5 or 1/2.5/4/5.5 instead of 6 on the last.

Chaos Knight - Lots of good damagespells... But they're balanced.. The deal is his armor, find a way to nerf it slightly and he'll be good ;)

Hell Knight - Lacks real damage capabilities, lacks real slowing capabilities, lacks disable.. He got an Ownage enchanting skill, but is it good enough to make up for the above? You should increase his attackspeed, maybe switch a skill with Unholy Frenzy ;) Maybe give him a 'Cry of the Underworld' which could work like Thunderclap. Underworld Strike = Needs more base damage, like 10-20 increase and less % damage >.<

Viper Spider - Ever heard of Waterwalk boots? Makes spider imba, but I've found his weakness! Raw damage and Nets does the deal...

[Steelb_l_ade]

Guys im looking for a tad more specific comments on exactly what should be change don the Diabloist and Witch Hunter, as im not sure as what I should adjust and am looking for suggestions I can work with.
I have come up with an idea for the Hell knigth base don these comments, what if i could make it so underworld strike is AOE? much like a targetted warstomp + the hp based % dmg to the primary target?
That way underworld strike would actually deal a seeable amount of dmg regardless of the % bonus, making it at least a semi-useful power even vs a weak target but a monster vs tough ones.

[DeathClown]

Maybe you should give him some range on the Underworld Strike, like 300 or 400.. Because, tbh, he gets useless aslong as someone's running away from him.

[Hunter of Shadows]

Guys im looking for a tad more specific comments on exactly what should be change don the Diabloist and Witch Hunter, as im not sure as what I should adjust and am looking for suggestions I can work with.

But YOUR the mapmaker, YOU understand what your map requires and needs, YOU understand the mechanics better than anyone else, WE, or at least I certainly do not.


Diabloist and Witch Hunter

I dun't even understand how the Witch Hunter is OP, I just said if you think he is, nerf it! as for diabolist, other than buffing his nuking power, I have no suggestions for you

[DeathClown]

The perfect map ain't attained without feedback mate ;) He can't just nerf something, and then people come to him and say it's bad, that's why = feedback.

[Hunter of Shadows]

The perfect map ain't attained without feedback mate ;) He can't just nerf something, and then people come to him and say it's bad, that's why = feedback.


A perfect map isnt attainable anyway

[DeathClown]

In whos' eyes? ;)

Anyways, my point is, feedback is critical, because players who play the game gain much more insight than the developer.

[Hunter of Shadows]

In whos' eyes? ;)

Anyways, my point is, feedback is critical, because players who play the game gain much more insight than the developer.

I know someone who would argue that point

The developer understands the subtleties of the game better than anyone cause HE MADE it, I'm making my own map, I'd say I understand better than the players any day

[DeathClown]

At this point it doesn't have anything about the game anymore because these patches does to contain core changes. It's balancing, if you would make a map yourself, and not take any feedback, then it would really end up imbalanced. Players will understand if they lose 4:1 ratio vs. a hero, that the hero is abit imbalanced. If you haven't ever seen this hero, and neither take their feedback, how can you improve your game?

[Hunter of Shadows]

At this point it doesn't have anything about the game anymore because these patches does to contain core changes. It's balancing, if you would make a map yourself, and not take any feedback, then it would really end up imbalanced. Players will understand if they lose 4:1 ratio vs. a hero, that the hero is abit imbalanced. If you haven't ever seen this hero, and neither take their feedback, how can you improve your game?

But Steel does play the game

[Steelb_l_ade]

Okay this is going off topic, yes i do play my own map but the players comments are essential to the overall balancing of the map. The early versiosdn which were made with no feedback at all were seriously inbalanced and its only through continued spectatign and feedback that it has evolved to this state.

[Hunter of Shadows]

Sea Drake-Currently junking noobs 10 to the dozen, considering nerfing Divebombs dmg slightly, or increasing Waves' cd.

I'm fairly certain he isnt that strong

[bo-bo]

Diabloist, Arcane Crusader and Hell Knight are the heros I think are too weak on that list.

[DeathClown]

Ranger could reduce her fatality on Slow... Make it 40-50 instead of 75 or whatever it got now ;)

[Hunter of Shadows]

Ranger could reduce her fatality on Slow... Make it 40-50 instead of 75 or whatever it got now ;)


yea

I vote 40, will make it still pretty easy to kill solo, but won't be total death.

[Steelb_l_ade]

Are u guys on about the damage from paralising shot?

[Hunter of Shadows]

Are u guys on about the damage from paralising shot?

The slow, not the damage

[Racoon]

I'm fairly certain he isnt that strong
he is that strong- just a small nerf on divebomb would do- or im not sure cause i own noobs and they sucked pretty bad

[Aixu]

Arcane Crusader-Slightly too weak, invigorate commonly regarded as "usesless" (although ive found some great uses for it)
Possibly increase this heroes base dmg?

He's not too weak! :(
And I know my guide doesn't use Invigorate but that's because I'm a selfish 'killwhore' muhahha.
But yes please increase his base damage, makes it easier for me :D

[chenlimin]

Diabloist are weak, kinda lacks normal damage, only 1 nuke, long CD summons which aren't very strong. He lacks any way to deal damage well, unless you combo all 3 offensive of his (hard to)

[IcyAngel]

It's mainly his ultimate I think, it is really, really weak.
They come one after the others with a delay, so you can't submerge the enemies, and they aren't strong enough to be just a little challenging alone.

[chenlimin]

probly right, he need a berf, if steel removed the trap points, right now, bug abuse seen to be the only way to win with dio.

[Steelb_l_ade]

I disagree with this, diabloists ultimate can be very powerful,. just needs some thought put in.
It allows him to creep any camp on the board, some fo which can generate up to 1k gold easily on clearance.

At lvl 3 this ultimate can generate 6 powerful units hitting for 30-50 damge with a high bash % each meaning you cna perma stun folks with this combo. Use the portal to retake the ritual, or summon a group and swap locations with an enmy to bring them into the summons making for perfect surrounds.

[IcyAngel]

To generate gold in one creep spot killing, it gonna be really late game and the biggest spots only. And sorry, but at this stage of the game, you don't have any gold problem, and you can actually kill camps without ultimate helps, with almost every chars.
So yeah, it can help in ritual fights, but it's actually only decent at it, and you will more than likely never have 6 in play, since they have kinda low life and get owned easily at this stage of the game, and they come one after the other too, so goodbye permabash..

[Steelb_l_ade]

You summon them first, then teleport the enemy into a pre summoned bunch of 2-3 of them, they get locked in place while the final ones spawn.
Also combine it with other cheap merc summons and such to force titans such as erinyes into a corner, when pre summoned and used with allies you can surround almost all the titans like this and any enemy heroes that arrive have to contend with half of a screen of summons so they cant even get next to the titan to kill steal it =)

[IcyAngel]

Getting stunlocked by 2-3 summons ?
How much % they got, 50 ?

And yeah, I guess it can help getting Erinyes stucks in corner, but there is something called Ranged heroes/creeps/spells in most games, dear Steely ^^

[Steelb_l_ade]

25% odd, fastish attack, teleport em in en chuck a hammer at em for the extra 3 sec, itl stack with theirs than u have 4 pple with 25% whacking em + hero =))

[IcyAngel]

Well if you use external items it is not the same thing..
And if they dont stun him for only a second, he is actually free..

[Steelb_l_ade]

Everything in the map has counters, im just saying using that strategy can be very effective.